Killer Instinct
Jitesh Pillai
Why are you so wired all the time?
Wired? Do I have gadgets and wires wrapped around my body? If you're wondering why I'm so wired, it's probably because of the Coke I drink all the time. I'm restless; I have this nervous energy that I channel into my performances. I use my exuberance constructively. Some actors use their energy by going hunting late at night, others lift weights, and I act.
Why did you strike all those blood-soaked poses, right from Baazigar to Chaahat and Army? Why all that anger?
Anger is the purest of emotions. We all hide our weaknesses, but when anger takes over our psyche, the defences crumble.
I like the sight of blood, but not in real life. On screen, all that red sticky stuff is visually appealing. Although the censors don't share my views. (Laughs) I'm a bloody good actor.
Why then do you sometimes resort to exaggeration?
I don't think there is such a word as exaggeration. But yes, I am guilty of exaggeration. And yet, all of this is subjective. What I consider exaggeration may be subtle to someone else.
Our basic behavior is pretty loud anyway. Compare the weddings, births, funerals and celebrations abroad with our ceremonies. Here, at a funeral, we beat our chests and become hysterical, whereas in America, people in mourning wear black suits and speak in hushed tones.
Why does the typical film hero have to dance and sing, even when he is portraying a sober cop or politician?
Tell me! And just look at our dialogues. When Tom Cruise plays a vampire, he uses words and expressions in accordance with the character. I have done films where I have to play this proper Harvard-educated guy, but when I have to beat up the villain, I have to use swear words like 'Haramzaade, kutte, kameene.'
Come on. Why blame only the lousy dialogues and scripts? Actors are also afraid to experiment.
When I do a Baazigar or a Darr, everyone says it is a great experiment. I don't think so at all. The difficulty is that everyone wants to play it safe.
While I did certain scenes in Baazigar, the crew guys didn't know how to react. But today, when I do a confrontation scene between father and son, everyone claps - apparently because they are familiar with such scenes. The artists as well as the filmmaker are petrified if there is no applause.
We are afraid of setting new standards, we worship the formula. Old is gold, new is twisted. Even the most liberal minds in India are afraid of black cats crossing their path. None of our progressive filmmakers will dare to show spilled salt in their films as it is said to be a bad omen.
Go on, I'm listening.
If I cried like they do in Hollywood... very subtly... most of the audience wouldn't understand the scene. There would be no applause, which would make me feel insecure. I would think I acted very badly.
Aren't such restrictions frustrating?
Very frustrating. And there's this star status nonsense. I want to be different. But when a producer signs me, it's on the basis of my marketability; he wants me to redo everything I did before.
When you sign a marketable star, the whole concept of making a different film somehow gets lost. It's a catch. But I can't blame the producer either, because he's paying me an obscene amount of money. All in all, I really respect Kalpani Lajmi for not casting me in her film (Darmiyaan).
Every director wants you to play Shah Rukh Khan in film after film?
Yes. A dialogue writer comes to me and tells me that he has written about 'Four or five long dialogues, jaise aap bolte hain'.
Just because I delivered ten lines in one go in Ram Jaane, everyone wants me to do it again. Our system will never change. Get adventurous and you are history.
Nobody allowed Mr Bachchan to experiment. And who am I? My only request to the writers is, please give me a chance to speak like the characters. Why should they sound like me? Test me; see if I can rise to the challenge. How come in the five years that I have been around, everyone says that my performance in Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge was my best yet. It is because I got to play Raj differently.
Maybe most directors just don't give you that much credit for your intelligence.
I think directors don't respect their own intelligence.
Isn't the onus then on you? I have seen you adding your own touch on the sets of well-known directors.
Exactly. The onus has shifted to me. Maybe I will have to start making my own films so that I am not answerable to anyone. Here, everyone is only obsessed with applause. I tell them to just stick with it, stick to your beliefs. Lekin meri yahan koi sunta hi nahin (Laughs). Even you are rolling over me... can I even dare to ask you to delay this interview till tomorrow?
If an experiment fails, it is tragic. Despite the reaction to Prem Granth, I still want to see Rajiv Kapoor stick to the kind of films he believes in.
I want my peers Madhuri Dixit, Kajol and Juhi Chawla to do roles they have never done before. Why do our heroines have to wear only ghagra-cholis and a matka on their heads? Or wear a black shirt and sit on a tired-looking horse?
Even I cannot get out of the rut. The bottom line is that the film has to work. A successful film is a good film. Baazigar and Karan Arjun did not work because of me, but because they were good films.
Anjaam did not work because it was a bad film... that was not Rahul Rawail's fault though. You have to be very critical of the film you make. You cannot love it like your own sweet little baby. You have to correct the mistakes. Maybe I will follow my words when I make my own films.
You talked about Hollywood... how jealous are you of the range of roles that are offered to actors there?
Of course I'm jealous. Look, Tom Cruise can play serious roles in Born on the Fourth of July and Rainman and he can play light roles in Top Gun and Cocktail.
Look at Brad Pitt. I thought he was a simpleton... a good-looking guy with sexy lips and great bone structure. And then I saw him in Twelve Monkeys. That's a world-class performance. He plays a confused guy and was even nominated for an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor. He didn't win. Well, you can imagine how competitive there is.
Brad Pitt even tops Jack Nicholson's performance in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I used to think of Brad Pitt as the man, the sex symbol. And then this! He has the courage to play the second lead in a Bruce Willis film and just steal the show. That's class.
I don't have that range of roles at all. What are my roles compared to Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Postman Always Rings Twice, Prizzi's Honor, Batman and Wolfe?
Even Mr Bachchan could not really explore his talent. When you talk about Amitji's range, you talk about Saat Hindustani, Saudagar, Abhimaan, Chupke Chupke, Namak Halaal, Deewar and not his later series of films.
We have world class actors like Naseeruddin Shah and Kamal Haasan... but they have not been fully exploited so far. I hope I don't sound arrogant but this is my sincere reaction as someone who watches their films.
Aamir Khan tried to get physical with Baazi but it didn't work. But when Robert De Niro tried the same in Raging Bull, we talk about it in awe even today. If Baazi had been a hit, everyone would be raving, 'Aamir ne kya dhansoo kiya naa body-wody, fight-wight.' My logic is that it wasn't a good film and that's why it didn't work. But Aamir tried and that's what's important.
Don't you think Amitabh Bachchan in particular couldn't take the risks he could have, simply because of the market conditions?
Yes, to some extent. I was sitting with Mr Bachchan recently and he told me that I shouldn't let the filmmakers dictate what I should do in accordance with the 'Shah Rukh Khan image'. He told me that his directors insisted on making him play Amitabh Bachchan ad nauseam.
But because he is such a fabulous actor, that frustration never seemed to show even in the silliest of films - even when he did an absurd break dance in those leather pants in Gungaa Jamuna Saraswathi. What he did in his films was 100 per cent his own contribution. No one else can take credit for the Bachchan style.
And Jayaji (Bachchan) told me, 'Don't let directors make you sing, dance and cry in all your films. That will be the end. Don't do 'Mere angne mein... tere paas doulat hai, mere paas maa hei... or rishte mein hum tumhare baap lagte hain... in the same film. Play characters.'
What would you say about Anil Kapoor? Every now and then he tried to be different.
Yes, he had the courage to be a non-conformist even when he was extraordinarily successful. I think his gambit will pay off in the long run. Do you know why the same people keep making fun of him? Because he is trying to enter unexplored territory. I am sure the bigwigs of the industry must have laughed when they first saw men walking on the moon.
If you ask me, Sanjeev Kumar was really ahead of his time. He was such a confident, believable actor. He guaranteed the audience a good time. Despite his weight, he could do a Thande thande paani mein nahana chahiye (Pati, Patini aur Woh) just in his underwear. Looks and clothes were by no means his priority.
I am also a fan of Rishi Kapoor. When I see Hum Kisise Kum Nahin or Zamaane Ko Dikhana Hai, I am amazed by his energy.
How confident are you?
I am confident in my energy, not in my performances. I feel insecure when I am not asked to repeat. I can never be complacent. I am afraid when words like 'mime' are thrown around. That is when actors stop growing. Their expressions become more stylized, sometimes you can't even hear them speak.
Do directors bother to correct you?
They can kick me if they want... but they don't dare. Yesterday I was doing a complicated dance number and everyone seemed to be saying 'Perfect!' I was fidgety because I knew I couldn't get it right.
Then one of the group dancers, who has seen enough stars come and go, told me, 'Jab tak aap star hain, sab chalta hai.'
I really shouldn't be working on five films at once. Most stars are so busy that they think they are doing everyone a favour just by turning up on the sets. On the contrary, a dogged attitude is a must. On Karan Arjun, Rakesh Roshan, Bhiku Varma and Salman Khan worked as if their lives depended on the film, which is why it was such a success.
Have you worked hard enough throughout?
You bet you have. Recently a magazine said that I don't look like I've been through hard times... that I don't have those worry lines on my forehead that are a sign of struggle. Well, the journalists' understanding of acting is pretty skewed.
I'm not going to apologize for the fact that I was born rich, or that I have all the comforts. I wasn't a victim of Partition, and I didn't sleep on railway tracks. All of that looks very good on an actor's resume. My struggle has been of a different kind. To say that everything fell into my lap is rubbish. I've worked hard, very hard.
What is acting a la Shah Rukh Khan?
My style of acting is about how much you hate yourself. I want to be somebody else all the time, be it Superman, Batman, Rahul or Raj.
It's a myth that actors can't look beyond themselves. They look in the mirror 85,000 times a day just to convince themselves that they are still there. If anyone else does that, you will call them vain. (Laughs) To be a star, you have to love yourself... to be an actor, you have to hate yourself.
And how do you avoid vanity?
By being fully aware that I am a yuppie, an entrepreneur, a creation of the times. For me, winning is important. If I have to lie a little, step over others... not so hard that they don't pick themselves up... it's OK with me. Trying to keep up with the Joneses is not important; I have to be Mr Jones himself.
I remember Uncle Salim (Khan) telling me that the biggest ambition of his life was to buy a Mercedes Benz. But I don't think Salman has such a goal. That's what I mean by struggle, we all have our different desires and fears.
If I have to overtake a guy while climbing a mountain, I won't pull him down. That would be fatal. I will just tell him that his pants are ripped: the moment he turns his head to look, I will whiz past. On a scale of 100, I only want to be 51 percent good, not 70 percent. When I have my last conversation with God, he will tell me I'm borderline. I'll pass the inspection and go to heaven.
Going to the movies is not a wonderful pastime today, is it?
A few years ago, over ice cream, sweets and popcorn, you would watch good triumph over evil, sway to songs like Aadha hai chandramo and admire the sheer spectacle and pageantry of Mughal-e-Azam.
Today, audiences are quick to say they have been duped. They will say, 'I didn't pay Rs 100 to see the hero in yellow pants.' In America, they try to capture the old-world charm. Hence you have 'sentimental' films like Close to Heaven and French Kiss.
Ten years ago, gadgets and special effects were big. Hence you had your Alien and Lawnmower Man. America was becoming high-tech, computerised, futuristic, voice-activated. Just put in a coin and hey presto, you have a coffee! That's why a film like Richie Rich, where the kid has a TV in his wristwatch, didn't impress Americans. They have seen all this.
But for Indian children, Richie Rich is still a dream. Everyone wants a mother who wears diamonds, a chauffeur like Bascombe, a butler like Cadbury. We wish we could understand such fantasies.
Is there an aspect of the actor's personality in every role he plays - be it Richie Rich or the morally upright Mumbai hero?
That's true. When an actor plays a fantasy like Richie Rich or Superman, he has to deceive himself. But when he does a Zara Si Zindagi or a Ghoroonda, he has to be more natural. Every action is grounded in reality. Riding in a crowded 9am suburban train is one reality. Losing the girl you love because you can't take care of her is another reality. But we don't want to see all that. We still want to live life king size.
Soon the performances will also become unreal. Amitabh's dialogues worked because the audience believed in a messiah then. There was this non-conformist wave. If any of us were to utter that kind of dialogue today, the crowds would pelt us with shoes. Yesterday a Shahenshah worked. Today he wouldn't because we now have a GR Khairnar.
Are you saying that Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge did well because there was no unnecessary bravado?
Raj knew what he wanted. So he merged with Simran's family very sweetly and went his own way. In one shot, Raj tells Simran that she has to obey her father. Cut to my scene with my father - I tell him that Simran will definitely be my bride. The message was, 'Simran to kya, uske baap ko bhi main pataloonga.' I was really clever.
Jumping off the cliff is not the answer today. Those immortal Laila Majnu love stories are no more. Baazigar is the sign of the times.
Now tell me, what is your opinion on the nebulous difference between commercial and art cinema?
I find certain films challenging and others entertaining. I made Idiot for Mani Kaul but I still don't understand his style of filmmaking, it's too esoteric for me. I can't look for the hidden meaning or allusions. I have also not been able to understand poetry. If someone can express an emotion in a paragraph, why stretch it to 20 lines?
Maybe I was biased when I went to see a Satyajit Ray film... that Ray was about poverty.
This is not true at all. Satyajit Ray covered innumerable subjects and also studied the mores of the upper class.
I admit that I was biased. I have heard of Charulata, Devi, Shatranj Ke Khilari and Agantuk to name a few from his vast output. But that's it. I am yet to become open to world class cinema.
Despite the connotations of art cinema, Ankur, Mirch Masala and Manthan were moving experiences for me. But I am really annoyed when high society snobs discuss over wine glasses with zero sincerity the metaphorical ambiguity of the racketeering in the film of X, Y, Z. They should instead identify with the ostentatious construction of the villain, the wife swapping, the diamond thefts and the arms deals shown in commercial films.
Whenever I want to feel superior, I think of Uski Roti. Whenever I want to feel vulgar, I talk of Ram Jaane. Sorry if I'm being snarky, but that's the truth.
How do you look back at your days on the Delhi stage? What did you learn from theatre man Barry John?
Everything I know about acting comes from theatre and Barry. The very first lesson was that there is no right or wrong way to act. If you are convinced of something, you can convince 10 million others.
There is no need to project your voice, you can talk with your back to the audience... anything. We used to read our lines like madmen five or six times, discussing our points of view thoroughly, developing the characters and adding our own dispositions. Once we knew our lines through and through, we would try our hand at funny versions of a tragic script and vice versa.
I also learnt to use space effectively. We could rotate our arms and kick our legs in all sorts of ways. In cinema, we have to use our body language within the space provided. In Raju Ban Gaya Gentleman, there was a lampshade that obscures Navin Nischal's face while I am busy with all the items on the table, so I peeked over it to make eye contact. You just have to use your mind when you are being hemmed in.
It is believed that the sign of a bad actor is when he doesn't know how to use his hands and has to put them in his pockets.
I don't agree with that at all. This hands thing has been exaggerated by the old school of thought. The dimensions of acting have expanded. For all I care, an actor could keep his hand in the most unmentionable place while doing a romantic scene.
With the faces that Govinda and I have, we would not have been allowed to enter a studio forty years ago. I wonder how Kishore Kumar and Mehmood got away with all their gestures. They were fantastic.
You seem to be heavily influenced by Jim Carrey. Even the piano scene in Dilwale Dulhania Le Jayenge was an imitation of him.
Strong is right, I love Jim Carrey. Like him, I have a mobile face. Even in day to day life, so many expressions flash across my face. Look at Jerry Lewis too. Oof man! The character I play in Duplicate is completely based on Jim Carrey.
In other words, is your acting style, if you have one, an assimilation of what you love in other actors?
Yes. Earlier, my performances in Fauji and Circus were geared towards imitating Michael J. Fox. Even as a child, when I had to give an answer in school, I would listen to my classmates' answers, assimilate all their arguments and then arrive at my answers. I would get top marks. My English teacher - a Mr Wintle - called me a 'smart, bloody sly'. That modus operandi continues to this day.
I have no guilt about copying other actors. If other actors say they don't copy, they are lying. How many action heroes can honestly say they don't think of Amitabh Bachchan while doing stunts? Now in my next film, I will imitate Brad Pitt and give my own interpretation to the performance. Until six months ago, I consciously wanted to be Jim Carrey.
Do you remember your first acting venture?
No. But as a child, I did a lot of Ram Leela, playing the monkey. I wrote some simple shairis which my father made me recite to his friends. I could handle the guests at home just through my acting or facial expressions. If I was asked to dance to a number by Mumtaz or recite a poem, I would do it immediately. But I could not carry on a conversation with the same guests.
I am told that I resemble my uncle, who was called 'Brahmachari'. There is a photograph of him standing in his underwear up on our terrace. Like him, I used to make everyone laugh; I liked to entertain everyone... a trait that remains to this day. I think I was destined to be a showman.
What happened then?
Everyone in my school, St Columba's, was very affected. At the same time, I played gilli-danda (a stick and ball game) with my friends Aaloo, Kaalia and Gitti. Since I played sports, I mingled with all the vulgar pahelwan types. I absorbed the best of my eclectic group of friends.
Since I did not have a decent accent, during debates and rhetoric, I also studied the accents and won prizes. I even acted in school plays like The Wizard of Oz.
But college was a culture shock. Instead of St Stephen's, I opted for Hansraj. Instead of debating Madonna, they were into Hum Log. I started missing my English-speaking friends. So I joined the TAG theatre groups. In a way, all this helped me keep my balance. Neither was I that angrezi (English) theatre guy nor was I completely lower class.
Theatre stars like Roshan Seth, Siddharth Basu, Divya Seth and Ritu Raj had left for television. So there was a whole gamut of roles just waiting to be devoured. I landed the dream roles. Back then, I didn't really want to act in films as they seemed like modified versions of Hum Log. But the most elaborate plans of mice and men go awry. And so here I am.
Was the transition from adolescence to your early twenties continuous?
I didn't have any real anxiety attacks. But there were periods of uncertainty. I grew up too fast. When my father died, I rode my bike to the hospital. The day he died, our driver didn't show up... so I drove my mother home from the hospital all by myself. I was only 15. I had never driven a car until that day. I became a little big man too soon.
Because I excelled in my studies, I just sailed through my adolescence. The only real depressions were the deaths of my parents.
What have you discovered about yourself while acting?
That I can be very sensitive and extremely cold at the same time. Many incidents that affect others leave me cold. Births, weddings, funerals, happy or sad occasions don't mean much to me. Perhaps because I have to experience highly stressful emotions in my films, I have become somewhat indifferent to them. But sometimes even the smallest incident can move me.
What goes through your head when the camera is on?
It's a feeling of euphoria. In front of the camera I can forget any kind of physical discomfort. I feel turned on (laughs), orgasmic. Some actors are afraid of the camera, but I'm not.
And when will you give up your obvious mannerisms and become a more internalised actor?
Next year. With films like Ram Jaane, I have freed myself from all the hero stuff, the jhatkas and adas. (Chuckles) Now I will start using my hands less and speaking less, if someone in this room wants me to.
I have quenched my curiosity about action, romance, infernal relationships... and overacting. I will try to feel the scene.
As an actor evolves, he becomes less flamboyant, more controlled. Naseeruddin Shah keeps telling me that I need to put more method and less madness into my performances. He has a vast knowledge; he knows exactly what is required. Like his last shot in Chaahat, I saw technique all the time and then suddenly there was this rawness. Oof, Naseer is deadly, technically perfect.
What do you mean by technically perfect?
Look, if I have a broken radio, I can fiddle with it and maybe fix it. But if I call a mechanic, he would immediately spot the problem and fix it. Because he knows the technique!
Every actor should educate himself just by watching Naseer in Manthan, Sparsh, Katha, Jaane Bhi Tun Yaaro and Mohan Joshi Haazir Ho. Watch him in films like Sir and Naajayaz too. Here is an educated actor... who reads... and therefore can slip into the skin of any character effortlessly.
Have any of your directors ruined your performances?
(Laughs) Not really. In fact, Aziz Mirza, Kundan Shah, Aditya Chopra and Abbas-Mustan have extracted so much more from me. If my performances were lousy in Guddu or Trimurti, it was not the director who failed, it was me.
Would you give up acting to become a good person?
The right thing to say would be, 'Yes, I would give up acting!' I wouldn't do that, though. In any case, I believe that only good people can become good actors.
Really? Some of the most celebrated actors are completely depraved and narrow-minded.
I'm not talking about moral aspects. It's just one of my views.
When do you give your best while acting?
When I'm under massive pressure! At times the director has five minutes to get a shot in the can, only 50 feet of footage left and the sun is setting. I haven't slept for three days, standing on a trolley that's about to topple over, I love living on the edge of the abyss. When everything goes wrong, I try to make it right by delivering a good shot.
In Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa, the last shoot was like that. The girl has just left me and I'm sitting there looking at the sky. We had only 20 feet of footage but it was a lovely shot. Kundan and I used to argue a lot. He would say things like, 'I'd rather work with a rock than you Shah Rukh'. He's too sweet.
Ketan Metha's Oh Darling Yeh Hai India was also stressful through and through but I loved myself in the role. One or two shots are pretty damn funny... you can see me smiling even in the prison scene. It's a wide shot that took an entire night to shoot.
Do you see any difference between 'a spontaneous actor' and 'a deliberate actor'? Aren't the two terms intertwined?
Of course they are intertwined. Even if a non-actor, by sheer luck, gives a decent performance, it is called spontaneous. But if you look at a truly spontaneous performance, you will see that a lot of thought went into it. Spontaneity is an oft-abused excuse for insufficient preparation, lateness and carelessness. 'I'm a spontaneous actor' is a worse cliche than 'we're just good friends'.
Spontaneity is an expression of what you have seen, read and absorbed in your life. Even method acting, to me, does not mean taking your role home, eating it, sleeping it or dreaming about it. I am reminded of a famous incident: Laurence Olivier and Dustin Hoffman were filming for The Marathon Man. Dustin Hoffman had to look very tired. Being a method actor, he walked until he was completely exhausted. He arrived on the set looking the part. Laurence Olivier took one look at him and muttered dryly, 'Shall we start acting now?'
Would you say that action is innate or cultivated?
I have learnt that the biggest actors and stars in our country have been the most unlikely candidates for stardom. Consider Dilip Kumar, Amitabh Bachchan, Rajesh Khanna, Dev Anand, Sanjeev Kumar, Naseeruddin Shah and Kamal Haasan! Dharmendra was the only typical star of Bollywood.
I have often wondered if you will ever do regional cinema, which offers much more content to an actor than the Mumbai films.
It would certainly mean harder work. I would probably need much more time to learn and understand my role and dialogues.
If Mani Ratnam offered you a role, would you drop everything and go to him?
Absolutely, for Mani Ratnam I would drop everything, including my pants.
What are the misconceptions about acting?
That you have to relax after a shot... that you have to be in the right state of mind before a shot. Even discussions on the sets can be pointless. You know what? Since you've been harping on the term, maybe you really don't have to be a good person to be a good actor. Happy?
Very satisfied. And finally, is acting about a comfortable home, a lot of money or the five Filmfare Awards?
The awards come first on my list... the other things are just byproducts of so-called fame. When I came to Mumbai, I had no place to stay. I have never lived in a proper house in my life. So now I just want a house of my own. I have never worked desperately for a Cielo or a Pajero.
By the end of my career, at least five of my films should be on DVD for my children to watch. The retrospectives can wait.
The final truth is that you have to have a great time: acting should be more pleasure than pain. If you don't enjoy it, you might as well be working as a cook, a clerk or a policeman... and strive for excellence.