“Roses are red, violets are blue, like a crazy, crazy world, but not crazier than you…”
Suguna Sundaram
Translation kingkhan@parlaris.com
Oops, I couldn't resist the little slip-up, but that's what a few days in Shah Rukh's company does to me. Watch me on his sets. I'm laughing maniacally, jumping around like a fanatic, drinking my way through endless cups of chai and trying to solve this puzzle of how to hook two right-angled fingernails together. I'm hooking, unhooking, hooking, unhooking, supple, awkward. And company in this madhouse (Shah Rukh's van) is Shah Rukh himself, Juhi and Aziz, and we're all practically grabbing each other's nails. Streams of people are thronging the van (it doesn't seem to be letting up) and a few thousand more are hanging around outside the van to catch a glimpse of the new boy wonder of the masses.
Dil To Pagal Hai is a success and Shah Rukh is at his peak. The other highlight in his life is baby Aryan, born on November 12. Shah Rukh disappears at lunchtime to check out the new light in his life since he is shooting in Bandra - a stone's throw from his home. It is Shashilal Nair's new film with Jackie, Shah Rukh and Juhi.
The mood is very unconducive to an interview, so I just sit down and wait. That's all you can do when you meet Shah Rukh. He's so greedy, he grabs life in big chunks and you're lucky if you get to share any of it with him. I did it for two and a half days and ended up getting the interview. I came prepared, with a change of clothes and a toothbrush, and I warned Shah Rukh that I would never leave. I think that worked, except that Shah Rukh always had the last word. He said, "I do this all the time - travel with clothes and a toothbrush."
Even after Dil To Pagal Hai, do you insist that you are not a romance icon?
Especially as an actor, I don't like doing romantic roles. I prefer action films, comedies. But Yash Chopra and Aditya Chopra see me as a good romantic hero. I keep telling them, 'Why are you forcing me into the role of romantic hero? I hate romance.' But they let me do it again and again.
I want to be an actor who has done diverse roles. I don't want any image. When I did negative roles, everyone said, 'Oh, this guy only does negative roles, there should be a shade of grey in them.' So I did DDLJ...after DDLJ, I did Ram Jaane and Koyla (which were both action films), Yes Boss (which was not a romantic role) and of course Pardes and DTPH, which were the only two really romantic films. Unfortunately, Koyla didn't have that success to that extent. Maybe someone else like him will be successful and then everyone will say, "How come you want to be an action hero?"
For someone who doesn't like romance, what attracted you to DTPH?
I liked the fact that it was a dialogue-heavy romantic film. It's a film about talking. You know, like Postcards from the Horizon. It's a different style. It's definitely got songs and commercial density, but it's blatantly not filmi. And what more does it need - Madhuri Dixit, Karisma Kapoor, great songs. Why shouldn't I have done the film? Also, I liked Madhuri's role. I think actresses like her deserve to be in such films. That I could be part of a film of this level was great. I would do it for certain heroines even if the film isn't completely based on me.
Are you saying you did the film because of Madhuri?
The main reason is that DTPH is a Yash Chopra film. But when I heard the story, I realised that the film is based on Madhuri. That doesn't hurt my ego because Madhuri is a great artist. I don't have even 40% of what she has. I did Army just because of two scenes with Sridevi. I did two scenes with Mehmood saab in one film. These are all screen greats. I would love to be in any film with them. I have done two films with Madhuri and I get along very well with her. Madhuri and I have created some wonderful moments together in DTPH. It is nice to have created such great moments together in a film with an artist who may become a legend.
But DTPH, strictly speaking, does not add to Yashji's rich repertoire.
Commercially, it is the biggest success Yash Chopra has ever made as a director. He can now laugh at the banks. I find it very wrong when someone writes, "You did not expect this kind of romance from Yash Chopra." Why can't you just appreciate the fact that he makes clean, beautiful films, has delivered them in the stipulated time, and has done so for almost 40 years of giving you good films, one after the other? Appreciate that. Don't go in expecting great cinema.
You limit yourself to describing the chiffon saris, whether in Chandni or Lamhe. Sure, I think he should do something like Deewaar too. But that is his choice. He is in his 70s, he still has the energy to make a fresh, optimistic film like DTPH. He is one of the greatest filmmakers in the country. Why hold that against him? Allow him to make his films. Mani Kaul, Kumar Shahani, Ketan Mehta and Adoor Gopalakrishnan have been allowed to have their films. Yash Chopra has been allowed to have his films.
Whose performance was better, Madhuri's and Karisma's?
Even though both were fantastic, I was the best.
After two hits, Pardes and DTPH, you must be feeling relief this year, especially after the near defeat you had in 1996.
I had 3 hits this year. Yes Boss was a hit, despite what people may say or believe. We just played it down because it is a kind of city film. Its success was as big as Gupt and that is why it was even more so at the time. The ideal situation would surely be Yes Boss being a hit all over India, even domestically, me getting the award for Koyla (?…?…?) while DTPH (he got awards for that) and Pardes are doing well commercially. I don't know why people think last year was a bad year for me. A bad year is when you release films and they don't do well. I had only one release - Chahat. Army was a guest appearance. I am disappointed with any film that doesn't do well because you put so much effort into it. You can say last year was just not as productive in terms of release as this year.
That must make you a very lucky star.
I am blessed by God. I have been in the film business for 6 years but I have never really seen a bad phase. I guess that happens only to a few. As Aziz said the other day. "If 2376 people tell you that you are God every day, it is impossible to remain sane." But I would like to have 1 million people telling me that I am God every day. I feel really strange when I see some of my heroines (I can't really speak about the heroes because I have never really met that many guys and even if I have, this 'man' thing happens and they don't talk about it) depressed when their films don't do well. I really enjoy the process of my work. I just wish they could enjoy the process of filmmaking as much. If I didn't enjoy the film, I wouldn't be able to enjoy its success as much. Like I really enjoyed making Chahat. Sometimes I do films that I don't enjoy shooting but they work. Like I didn't enjoy Karan Arjun because I didn't believe in that film. It was completely Rakesh Roshan's belief that made me go ahead with the film. And I respect him for that because I knew so little about cinema. I had never done an action film and I think I was talking without knowing anything. I also respect Subhash Ghai because I didn't know how Pardes was made. I guess there is a lot more to learn. It is my lack of knowledge that sometimes makes me not enjoy a film.
So much has come from your energy on screen. What do you personally prefer - understatement or your normal exuberance ?
Understatement doesn't negate my core persona. It's just that holding it back takes more energy than letting it go. Either way, I've never really questioned my directors. I don't differentiate between understatement and exaggeration. Only some stupid actors think that. I never feel like, "Shit, why do they want me to do that?" Whatever the director wants, I do if he thinks it serves his purpose. No matter what, I still want to be able to show emotion, anger, struggle, happiness. Some directors just want a look from you, put music under it and they have their moments. It's fine with me.
Watching a Shah Rukh Khan flick means predictability in terms of your energy. What is there to say about that?
Nothing. Love it or forget it. I just want to say one thing to anyone who asks this question, "Name me one unpredictable actor in this whole wide world." Why does everyone ask me about this predictability? What is so predictable about me in DTPH? What is so predictable about me in the scene in Pardes where Mahima says, "you go", I say, "Yes" and come back and say, "No". I think that was brilliant. That is one of the moments I love in Pardes. That is unpredictability. Not every scene can be unpredictable. Now what unpredictability can I show in a car, driving in neon lights? I could light my cigarette but they would say, "Arre Yaar, mannerisms hai iske bohot". (Hey friend, this is a very bad habit) I have tried to give something different in every scene, which people accuse me of saying, "Every time he tries desperately. He tires me out". If I tire you out, give yourself physiotherapy. Just enjoy the moment.
I think it's great when Madhuri comes back in my direction in DTPH and I look at her and think she might be coming back to me but she just picks up her bag and leaves. I don't know how many people catch that. Just that one look is unpredictable. As a climax of DTPH. It could have been done angrily: "Look me in the eyes and say you love me!" or emotionally: "Please tell me you love me" or pleadingly: "Say you love me just once".
These are predictable options. It has never been done the way I did it. With a lot of sarcasm: "I didn't hear that. You don't love me? Say you don't love me'. She says 'No, I don't love you'. He goes 'Say it a little louder, yeah'. You never realise, you are very sarcastic with people you love.
If you can put 2-3 unpredictable things in a film, it's good. In every film I have done something like that. I did it in Ram Jaane. Which hero wants the bad guy to treacherously drop the gun and then shoot the other guy in the head? He is a dog - the hero.
It is so unpredictable. I insisted to the director that it should be like that. A lot of people found it awesome. People say 'Why such exaggeration? Can't he take a middle path?' But I think mediocrity is akin to narrow-mindedness. It's all or nothing. There is no in-between. Neither in life nor in films.
The demands for a nuanced portrayal of Shah Rukh come from the audience, the director or, not least, you...
The audience don't think I have developed mannerisms. It's a weird 'get-them' situation. What the audience wants, you have to show them first before they decide. Somewhere in the back of their minds they may want to see something different but they can't put their finger on it and say, 'I want this different in the film or this difference in Shah Rukh'. So you show them that. Some say Koyla didn't work because I played a tough guy in it. I don't think so. We were just wrong about the film. The audience is ready to accept anything but by the time their choices are known, all the actor's efforts are gone. He may have failed badly in what he was trying to do. Which doesn't mean the character failed or the film failed. It just means the differences weren't good enough. The audience is open to seeing a Maachis or a Viraasat that were very well done. It accepts a Yes Boss or Judaai, which were different. The films of this year are also such a case. Take Border - which was not liked initially but turned into a big hit. Pardes, which was said not to work but became a big hit. DTPH, which they said was not a complete film, is a big hit. That means the audience went to see these films because they were ready for it. I think it is more intellectual than the critics. If you look at the films that have done well, you realise that the audience is 100% accepting of a change. In fact, they are more ready to accept a change than the directors, the producers and the film critics. Film critics just want to sit and harp on about Darmiyaan and such films because they think if they don't like it, they are the less intellectual ones.
Talking about Darmiyaan, Kalpana Lajmi said, you were pressured by commercially big personalities to refuse the role of a eunuch.
That is quite my mind if she thinks that's how I am. I would have taken the role. In fact, I called her and told her that I wanted to do the role. If I had done it, it would have been 100% accepted. And no one would have missed out on going to DTPH because I am a chakka. Notwithstanding that it is sad to make a film on eunuchs, the fact that she mentioned it like that means that there may be a belief among people or producers that chakkas mean less. I think she believes that chakkas are less.
What are the films to come from you?
My next release is Duplicate. I am playing a double role. This is different. There will be two of me. You cannot stand one, now take two. You have seen me bad and good, now see both together. Double Shah Rukh, one award, aao dekho Duplicate. That is the logo for the film. I love the film. It is a wonderfully funny film. It was great to do this film, a thoroughly commercial film with no message whatsoever. I personally like it.
There is Mani Ratnam's film Dil Se which has something to say. The rest are still in limbo. Josh (for which I have made the first schedule), Karan Johar's Kuch Kuch Hota Hai, Badshah and Shashilal's film are expected to release by the end of next year or early 99.
What kind of films have you planned to do? What kind of films are you doing now?
I acted like the audience. I was open-minded and I am lucky that many people let me keep an open mind and let me do films like Baazigar, Darr, DDLJ. The only point now is that I am very careful about how the film looks - it should be made very cleanly, with some oomph and some input of technology. But when we start a film, we don't know if it will be like that. But someone has to decide what kind of scenes we should have and take control. Without questioning the ability of the cinematographer or the music director or anything, we try to make sure that everyone works hard and everyone tries to bring something new. Like KV Anand tries something new which has never been done before, Santosh Sivan tries something new which he has never done before. People who are bored by their own reputation are the people you would love to work with the most.
Have you ever felt forced into a situation while shooting any film where nothing was under your control?
Sometimes you have to make compromises when shooting on location. But that's what filmmaking is all about. It's like life. You try to make the best of the situation you're given. Sometimes, like in life, such constraints turn out to be the most beautiful moments. I had a back injury and I was very sad that I couldn't become an athlete. And I became an actor. That's why I'm glad today that I had my back injury.
Would you say the Mani Ratnam film is different?
What is a different film? I have done 25 films. How much difference can I expect now after 25 films?
Are you saying that the next 500 films will be more or less the same for Shah Rukh Khan?
I personally believe that Mani Ratnam is the greatest director in the country. He is the only one who can work internationally. He is simply the most educated and nicest director to work with. And I like his films a lot. I just hope I can be part of a film that is as good as Roja or Bombay.
Do you think it is always necessary to try to say something in your films?
No. I like making films that say nothing at all. Of course it is nice to be able to say something with your film, but it is not necessary to do it all the time. I am making 5 films, Mani Ratnam's film is saying something, the other 4 are not.
What is your idea of an ideal script?
There is no such thing as an ideal script. Films develop a life of their own once they have been started. You shoot for 20 days and then the film is complete, not how you wanted it to be. That is the best part. You have the little baby you started with, it grows bigger, grows over your head and says, "Now I'm taking over. You work for me now." You start a film and ultimately the film takes over you.
Do you feel like your baby is dictating your life in real life?
No, no, no. I will never look at Aryan like a movie in my life. In a movie, you have certain preconceived ideas. With a child, I don't have any preconceived ideas - until he's 6'2" or whatever. I just want to let him be, I don't want to mold him into anything. Then I won't be disappointed.
How did you feel when you held him for the first time?
Very small. A bit like Bill Cosby when he said to his wife after the birth, "You know, we had a love affair for 13 years, we've been married for 6 years and you know what we've produced, we've produced a lizard." When he was born, Aryan looked like a lizard, a small lizard and a Chinese one at that. Gray, blue. But what's nice is that he doesn't scream. He just sleeps all day. I wish I could. I like quiet people.
Who picked his name?
I did. I was just sitting there and Aryan came to mind. The name is always there but never used. I said why not Aryan?
Has your relationship with Gauri changed after the baby?
He is only 25 days old. I always loved her. I just find her a little more mature now. I find her more mature than me. I see her as a mother, more than I can be a father.
Mother to the baby or to you?
I only see her as a mother. There is the girlfriend phase, the partner phase, the wife phase and then the mother phase. It brings a strange feeling. I have always respected women, not just my wife. Women are better. Everything they have is extraordinary. I always thought Gauri was a nicer person than me or at least equal in everything. I don't see her as an equal now. I see her as better. She is above me now. Someone said, 'Don't demean women by saying they are equal to men.' Women are better people to start life with and God gives more to the good people, that's why he has given them the privilege of having children. And God also gives them good husbands sometimes (laughs). In fact, God gives women the only negative thing. Men.
Before Aryan, did you ever think seriously about parenting and bringing positive people into the world?
I still don't think about parenting. Being positive is not my job, it's Aryan's job. What he wants to be, what he becomes, is up to him. I am what I am because I was let go. I was allowed to be what I am. Whether I am ultimately good or bad is all my responsibility. I think Aryan will be more or less free. That's what I would like to give my child - freedom. I don't expect anything from him. I don't even want to give him a sense of security in terms of material inheritance. He has to do what he has to do.
Do you have any plans or fears for Aryan, for his future?
Life is the greatest thing I have given him. I can't give him anything greater than life. And that too, my involvement was 10-15%. I'm happy with that.
Has fatherhood affected your acting ability?
(laughs loudly) Yeah, I treat all my heroines like children now. I pick them up, I cuddle them, I call them "baby". I don't think it affects my acting in any way. I've always been very soft inside somewhere. If someone changes diapers, I can change them better. That's the only thing that's gotten better.
Do you think having a child in the house means a higher level of sensitivity?
I'm always oversensitive anyway. My wife and friends tease me about it - not just about being hurt. I'm also very sensitive with other people.
You talked about the book "The Ultimate Seduction" about the lives of the greats. You said for most of them it was work or sex. Which is it for you?
My wife gets very angry when I say that because she thinks it's too personal. But I love making love. It's good for me, good for my skin. I love work too. Somewhere both have the same quality of orgasm. I don't like food at all. For me it's making love and making movies. I find my movies sexy, not my person. No woman wants me anyway. They just talk about my sexy lips. I've always heard that women make sexual advances, but it's never happened to me. I keep telling my wife I'm in a place where it should happen, but nobody touches my underwear. She says, "I don't believe you." Maybe I'm so stupid and thick-skinned. I like exaggeration so much, I don't understand what sophistry is. Tell me, how do you girls express yourselves? I don't believe in sexual advances when girls tell me my eyes are beautiful. Okay, if they said my nose is really pretty, that would be an advance. (That would also be a lie) They should do it openly, they should caress my legs, hug me tightly, kiss my lips full-bodiedly. They should do something that makes me feel, "Aaha, that's a sexual advance. The girl wants me."
But what happens if your legs are stroked?
Eh, we'll see about that. No one has done it yet.