Double impact
No generational difference, no drama, no hesitation. The two top actors exchange confidences like long-lost friends. Fresh from the tape recorder...
Five o'clock in the afternoon at Pratiksha, Bachchan's residence in Juhu-Vile Parle, could be as serene as an autumn evening in a Swiss chalet. The weather may not be cool and refreshing, due to the unusually humid and humid end of the year in Bombay. And yet a kind of silence hangs over the bungalow.
In the office enclave, calls from Mr Wilfred Vaz are answered with extreme politeness. The air conditioners make a muted hum, a clerk strolls in and out of the kitchen in slow motion and the flagstone terrace serves as a parking space for cars that gleam as if they have just been delivered from a car dealership.
Our mission today is to bring the voluntary exiled Amitabh Bachchan together with the more than busy Shah Rukh Khan. The appointment has been fixed for 5.30 p.m. And to our delight, but not to our surprise, the meeting of the two top actors of Indian cinema goes off like a charm, like a high-level summit meeting. We say not to our surprise, as both the actors are sticklers for punctuality and accept specific schedules.
Shah Rukh Khan races in from Film City. For him, it's a major occasion - to meet face-to-face with a superstar who, he candidly admits, has inspired many significant moments of his performances. He can't wait to ask Big B questions. And when we tease him, "Hey Shah Rukh, you look like you're frozen in awe of the man," he laughs, "am I?"
When it comes to chatting across a glass table in an anteroom with Amitabh Bachchan, he's of the quick variety, frequently barraging the elderly star with piercing one-liners. We don't have to prompt any of them; the mood is good.
Bachchan makes sure Shah Rukh is comfortable. Tea, colas and a silver tray of mithai (Indian sweet), cashews and kachoris (Indian snack) are provided. "Would you like something stronger?" the older star asks euphemistically, followed by the polite reply, "Thanks, but I have to work later tonight."
Back from one of his regular visits to the United States, Bachchan is optimistic. He's not crazy about photo sessions, but the kids around him certainly are, while the photographer sets up the lighting equipment. A wash and a change of clothes later, the duo are posing in sharply tailored blazers and neatly tied ties.
"Everyone strips down for a magazine cover these days... and you're dressing us up to our teeth," AB quips.
The transition from the necessary formal opening to the casual mood is easy for the star actors. Abhishek Bachchan looks at his father lovingly, while Gauri checks Shah Rukh's outfit and accessories with the kind of care that can only be taken by a mere apne.
Filmfare switches on the tape recorder between takes to capture the chitchat between Bachchan and Khan. Then, without further ado, on to the duologue:
SRK: Are you planning to act in any film at the moment?
AB: No, not at the moment. I did it for 23 years, I stopped signing films five years ago. It's been almost three years since I've been in front of the camera.
SRK: You have reportedly signed a film directed by Mani Ratnam.
AB: That's just a rumour, it's not true at all. The speculation must have started when my film distribution company was negotiating to buy the rights for Mani Ratnam's new film Bombay.
SRK: But the report contains quite a lot of details about your comeback project.
AB: You have to substantiate the report. I don't know why and how such reports get into print.
SRK: Do you miss acting?
AB: Not really. Sometimes I even think that I won't be able to act again. I certainly can't continue acting as I did, I can't go back to the old format. Age is an important factor. Really, I can't see myself acting unless there are some noticeable changes in our style of filmmaking. I really hope that there will be changes because they are a must for the development, for the evolution of cinema.
SRK: You could start this development.
AB: I can't. It's the audience that sets the modalities and causes the changes. There has to be a revolution among people in terms of what they want, what they want to see. If that doesn't happen, none of us can do anything. We can't dictate where it's going.
SRK: Can’t the filmmakers bring about change?
AB: That doesn't seem possible either. We experimented in the case of Main Azad Hoon. Although the subject was unconventional and topical, the film didn't work. The audience didn't accept my suicide at the end. In the script, suicide seemed plausible. But when the audience thinks you have superhuman qualities, they consider suicide a form of cowardice, an escape. For them, suicide is a negative trait. Shah Rukh, you know the critics have always wanted a change, but they have never found us wanting to change one thing or the other.
SRK: Maybe one should not lose heart or give up just because a film didn't work.
AB: What you are proposing would not be very practical. A continuous flow of money would be required to keep going.
SRK: But take the case of Harrison Ford, he is not the typical hero. His Clear and Present Danger and The Fugitive were different from the normal course of Hollywood films. He seemed very human when he performed heroic deeds; he did not play Indiana Jones again. And yet he is still known as one of America's leading actors... his career lasted a long time.
AB: Very few actors can do that. Also, you can't compare our films with Hollywood. The education quotient is infinitely higher abroad, here only the urban elite identify with foreign films... In fact, it would be interesting to see how the STAR Movie Channel fares in the villages and small towns - who knows, with Hindi subtitles they might make headway. Also, the dubbed version of Jurassic Park has done very well... they have also released Speed in Hindi... Perhaps one day such films can even make actors redundant.
SRK: When have you been completely satisfied as an actor? Which film would you consider to be your most accomplished performance?
AB: I am still looking for that moment where I can say that these were my best performances. As far as I can make out, there have been three periods in my career - first, the Hrishikesh Mukherjee films, second, the films written by Salim-Javed and directed by Manmohan Desai and Prakash Mehra, and then those with the younger directors like Tinnu Anand and Mukul Anand.
SRK: Did you have a feeling that Sholay would become such a huge hit while it was being made?
AB: Not at all. In fact, it was amazing how the film grew with people. Looking back, one can feel that there were quite a few errors in the script... unlike Deewar's script, which was flawless. Even though the songs were little different from Deewar, it made no difference to his impression. Yet Gulshan Raiji, who produced the film, insisted on the mujra number and the other songs. Imagine, I was made to sing in Kaala Patthar, even though it was not necessary for my character at all.
SRK: My performance in Baazigar was inspired by yours in Parwana and Deewar. Recently, even a writer approached me with the original script of Parwana and asked me if I would play your role. (Laughs) I watched all the films in which you had played a negative role before we started shooting for Baazigar... Now my question is, what made you accept Parwana?
AB: It was simply a matter of my stomach. I needed to earn a decent meal, I needed a job and the role was offered to me. It was the only exciting part that came with it. The joy of getting any work was immense. I accepted everything without a second's thought - Anand, Reshma Aur Shera, Parwana, Gehri Chaal. And with every successful film, I was advised to stick to one image. After Anand, I was warned never to take off the dhoti. After Parwana, I was told that I was making a complete villain. So I must say that you took a brave decision when you did Baazigar and Darr.
SRK: Would you not have accepted a role like Baazigar?
AB: If I had been offered a Baazigar in the early 1980s, I would have been a little cautious. All my negative roles... like the one in Deewar, had some sort of justification in the end. There were also some slugfests in my films; the violence was more palpable than visible. When I got the lead roles, even attempting something unconventional was unthinkable. In that sense, what Shatrughan Sinha and Vinod Khanna achieved is much more commendable, they slipped effortlessly from hero to villain roles.
SRK: Considering your voice, how come you were asked to play a mute in Reshma Aur Shera?
AB: The decision to play a mute was a spontaneous one. I felt that my character would be more sympathetic.
SRK: Is it true that All India Radio rejected you when you applied for the job of a news anchor?
AB: (Laughs) Man, that was so long ago. You're right. I had auditioned for English and Hindi news. I was told to come back six months later and I was rejected again. I felt thoroughly demoralized. There were more qualified candidates for the job; I guess I didn't stand a chance.
SRK: What would you say about my style of delivering the dialogues?
AB: Good, very good.
SRK: (Cries out) That's it, yours is the final judgement. Nobody can criticise me anymore! Okay? Right? Now tell me, did you face any humiliation during your initial days - anything that hurts an actor's ego or even your personal ego?
AB: I think a lot depends on the individual mental framework of a person when they enter the industry. If they have made up their mind to excel, then they can handle humiliation. When things weren't going well, I felt really frustrated. Thankfully, those phases passed quickly.
SRK: It is believed that Tarachand Barjatya told you that you don't have what it takes.
AB: Yes, he recommended that I follow in my father's footsteps and become a poet instead.
SRK: But then you acted in Rajshri's Saudagar.
AB: Again, it was an economic question. I was offered a role, I had to act, so I said yes.
SRK: You were wearing a sherwani (oriental wedding waistcoat) when I first saw you. We lived opposite Mehmoodsaab's house in Bangalore, you were shooting there for Bombay to Goa. We crowded around you and you gave us kids Parle's toffees. There was a gentleman there - a pucca MBA kind. Sometimes I think you modeled your way of talking and walking after him.
AB: (Confused) I remember going to Bangalore for Bombay to Goa. But I don't remember the gentleman you described.
SRK: What do you think about the actors of today’s generation?
AB: I can't stop praising them at every discussion. Each of you guys seems so well prepared in the very first film. I think our audience was very tolerant, they overlooked our weaknesses, they gave us time to hone our acting. Actors today have to hit the mark the first time or they're ostracized. The variety and spontaneity that actors today show is amazing. As for me, to this day I freeze to start a song or a dance.
SRK: (Smiles) On the other hand, we had your films to watch. When we think of romantic films, we think of Rajesh Khanna, when we think of tragedy and drama, we think of Dilip Kumar and when it comes to action, it's Amitabh Bachchan. Ninety percent of today's heroes want to be like Amitabh Bachchan. When I am asked to do a scene as a drunk, the only actor that comes to mind is Amitabh Bachchan. None of us can do anything drastically different because you have done all that.
AB: (blushes) I feel pretty big when I hear this.
SRK: How did you make all those drunken scenes so convincing? Do you drink a lot?
AB: No, I don't, not anymore. But there was a time when my friends and I would get together every night in Calcutta. We would drink ourselves silly, there was so much else to do in Park Street and Chowringhee. Perhaps the way we behaved and the nature of the revellers has stuck in my memory. It's like being at a funeral by accident, not involved in the proceedings. Instead, you're watching the widow or a bereaved relative react to the loss.
SRK: Do you cry? Have you ever looked at yourself in a mirror while crying?
AB: I cry, yes. Very easily. But I have never stood in front of the mirror to analyze my expressions. The tears come easily to me.
SRK: Could I ask you which of my films you liked?
AB: Oh, all your films - especially Baazigar and Darr. I admire your overall presence, your continuity of expression. It is extremely difficult to maintain the same style and continue to speak the lines in the same style when a film takes almost two years to complete.
SRK: Is there any role you wish you had played? A role that Motilal or Dilip Kumar played in Devdas, Ganga Jamuna or Mughal-e-Azam?
AB: I can't be presumptuous. It's difficult to see yourself in a role until it takes full shape on the screen. Roles change over time. Deewar was big in 1975 but could be called nonsense in '95. Our life patterns have changed. The way we react to situations has also changed. Like life, cinema moves at a rapid pace. What I wanted to say is that it would be interesting to find out how many editorial cuts there were in Deewar and how many in Baazigar.
SRK: What would you say are the main factors that make you famous? Your eyes, your voice or your personality? Which would you choose objectively?
AB: I had nothing to do with the success of my films, I was not doing anything special. I was only special because I was the creation of Salim-Javed. Their scripts were novel, which was the need of the hour. The circumstances and environment were conducive to the creation of a new kind of hero - a hero who would revolt against the system. Whenever someone took sides, it worked. Vijay fit the bill. People were in the mood to rebel. Any actor who played the role would have been successful. Now you might say that I have worked with Prakash Mehra and Manmohan Desai too and Salim-Javed did not write all their scripts. So what. By now a certain identity has been established. The other roles were continuations of what they had created - just as comedy had to take the next step in films like Amar Akbar Anthony, Namak Halaal and Sharaabi.
SRK: Are you a hardworking actor?
AB: Yes, I think so.
SRK: It is said that today's stars have little stamina... that they burn out quickly.
AB: I strongly disagree. How can anyone judge the strength or staying power of any actor? Earlier, there were no video cassettes, cable, whatever. There was only cinema. If people are still interested in me, I have cable and TV to thank for showing my films again and again and keeping me alive, so to speak. I am still known even though I have not acted for years. I see no reason why people are showering me with love and affection. It is beyond logic. I am only here because of the advancement in electronic technology. Actors do not burn out now. In fact, they are seen by more people in a shorter period of time. So what the heck! Today, more people are aware of Indian cinema than they were in my time. Now a viewer can make an actor appear in his living room by pressing a button. If he doesn't like you, he can fast forward you, if he likes you, he can see you in slow motion. He can take an actor to the bathroom, to the bedroom, wherever. The real test for today's actors will be in ten years. When your Baazigar and Darr are released on video, cable and TV. And then I would like to know how Deewar and Sharaabi do... The satellite channels will keep your work extremely alive. That will be fantastic! That is why your generation will not burn out at all.
SRK: How do you deal with flattery? How do you stay normal?
AB: You don’t think I’m normal now?
SRK: I think the demigod status of stars has diminished because of technology though. Once films would run for 25 weeks on pre-order, now it's a totally different thing. But if I were to talk about public admiration towards my contemporaries, there would not be much difference in how people would talk to Ajay Devgan or Salman Khan or me. But there will be a radical difference in how they would react to someone like Anil Kapoor and then to you and then to Dilipsaab. You know, there is a lot of awe and respect.
AB: It has a lot to do with our social ethos. We show respect to our elders, so some of the adulation we get is based on seniority.
SRK: When you were acting, many viewers were shouting, “Ae Amit! Kya re, theek hai kya tu?”
AB: Absolutely. They do that even now. When my car stops at the Mahim traffic light, they come up and say, "Kya re Don, kya Anthonybhai, kidhar jaata hai?"
SRK: Quite often, people call and I start talking to them thinking I know them. Then I realise I have no idea who they are. Similarly, I have seen Anil Kapoor walk onto the sets and even Sunny Deol... people keep their distance but with me they tend to be clumsy in confidences.
AB: Wait, with time they will also distance themselves from you. That's what happened with me. Over the years, many have felt, "Yeh buzurg actor hai, thodasa respect dena chahiye."
SRK: Okay. Did you use a particular format to work on your characterisations? I think I get carried away with so much work. I am sure you must have faced the same problem when you were doing five to six films at a time. That is when an actor feels that he is on a high and keeps on doing his roles somehow all over the place.
AB: Once your adrenaline starts pumping, it lasts for a long time. Looking back, I feel that performances might have suffered if you hadn't worked under pressure. Who knows! When you're on a high, you pump a lot of energy into your system. Your creativity is at its maximum. If you allow it to go into hibernation, like I did, it's going to be difficult to come back.
SRK: Do you think that one night you will suddenly have the desire to return to work and be back in the studios the next morning?
AB: There are no signs of that at the moment. But I can't say. I could just be on a roll. Once you get back into the swing of things, it's incredible how you can do a dance sequence in the morning, a death sequence in the afternoon and an intense emotional scene at night. How do we do that? Actors in the West would never be able to do that. I think actors in India are doing something phenomenal.
SRK: Is there any advice… any pointers… that you could give to actors of my generation?
AB: I am just very impressed with today's generation who come on sets with their skills intact and their homework done. Even a random hand gesture is worked out. This shows the professionalism of your generation. I am also impressed with the way you guys react to the dialogue you are asked to say or hear. You have to react as if you are saying or hearing it for the first time. This is handled harmoniously. Without a doubt, I can say that some actors of my generation have not been able to achieve this level of skill.
SRK: No advice?
AB: Oh I would like to take some advice from you.
SRK: Make films! How do you feel about the media?
AB: I haven't dealt with them at all for 15 years.
SRK: Have you ever wanted to hit a journalist?
AB: No.
SRK: Have you ever wanted to throw a journalist off a terrace?
AB: Ha! Ha! No, never.
SRK: From the first floor?
AB: I'm quite complacent about these things. I would never degrade myself by doing such things. That would go against my temperament.
SRK: What do you have to say about invasion of personal privacy?
AB: Fine! If I'm out in public and people are talking or writing about it, I really can't do anything about it. But if a journalist wants to speculate about what's going on inside this house, then that's clearly an invasion of my privacy. I will protest against that.
SRK: It is believed that there will never be another Shammi Kapoor, Rajesh Khanna or Amitabh Bachchan. Do you think any actor today can achieve that kind of superstar status? And if someone does, how would you react?
AB: I would accept it. I mean, it has to be that way. In his time, Shammiji was extremely big. He had a special aura. With Rajesh Khanna, there was a new, almost indescribable excitement among the audience. It was as if everyone was very possessive of him. I think it will be difficult to create the same intoxication. Shah Rukh, I hope you own it and that you become dear to people. At one time there was an aura of mystery... I really don't know what it was. It was an incredible time. It would be interesting to explore how that happened. I have never been able to understand it. The closest I can come is that the ordinary Indian has been brought up largely on our epics - the Mahabharat and the Ramayan. Most of the characters are drawn from the epics, there is an element of mythology in almost every film... and the structure of the storytelling is also epic. There is the good man and the bad man. And there's the woman who gets kidnapped. And there's the monster who bullies her. And then there's a fight. Somewhere in our souls, this is the ultimate and only story. Any other structure or a story that reflects our technological advancement will not be effortlessly accepted. I hope, though, that it won't always be like this. I would like to see changes. I once asked my father, what is it that excites people... what draws them to the movies. And he said that in the movies, they get retributive justice in three hours. In reality, you don't get that kind of retributive justice in a lifetime. That's so true! In life, you and I will not get retributive justice. But this guy on the screen manages and gets it in three hours. He throws out all his frustrations and resolves everything... We are seen on the screen in a very magnified version. People gather every day to see me at the gate, they shower me with admiration. They don't know what we are really like. If they did, they would probably reject us.
SRK: When I was going to the mahurat of Shihkar, a gentleman stopped me at the gate. So I said, "Look, I am the hero of this film. I have to go in." I didn't have my ticket with me. So he said, "Bahut dehke hain maine tere jaise Heere Moti." Then a guy came and recognised me and said, "Arre how could you stop him?" And the guard said, "Arre saab, actor ki koi personality to bhi honi chahiye ke nahin?" (Bachchan doubled over with laughter). So many people come to me and say, "You look so good in the films but..." they don't even complete the sentence.
AB: Tell me, why didn’t you come and experience Holi with us?
SRK: I was in Kulu-Manali to shoot for Subhash Ghai. We had a very tough time during Holi. We couldn't shoot there; we had to be rushed away in cars.
AB: Rajasthan has the most aggressive Holi. (To Gauri) You would love that because on Holi women are given a chance to hurl the most exquisite abuse at their husbands and other men. The women even beat the men. They twist a piece of cloth tightly, wet it and then attack the men. And the men just sit there and bear it. And God, the abuse... never in my life have I heard such abuse...
SRK: Have you ever thought about directing?
AB: Oh, I don't even know the ABCs of directing. I don't even know how to act. I do what the director tells me.
SRK: You have made so many films with people who know nothing about directing.
AB: Nai, nai bhai, what are you talking about?
A pause... Colas are downed. Shah Rukh Khan lights another cigarette... "I hope it's OK for you," he says, pointing to the cigarette. Amitabh Bachchan nods approvingly, "Of course it is. Don't worry."
We get the ball rolling again with the question of who Bachchan would cast in a remake of Sholay today. To which he cheekily snaps...
AB: Why? What's wrong with us old guys?
SRK: There have been several remakes. Ha! Karan Arjun is supposed to be a remake… with a little bit of Karz… you know.
AB: Rakesh Roshan’s?
SRK: Yes. I believe you were interested in theatre.
AB: Yes, but not professionally. But you went to the National School of Drama, is that right?
SRK: No, I was with TAG (Theatre Action Group). The actors from NSD like Raghuvir Yadav used to work with us. I was with TAG for five years, we did mostly English theatre. Barry John directed some of the plays, he is excellent.
AB: Yes. I only did English amateur theatre.
SRK: Don’t you miss acting?
AB: I wish I could perform on stage. I would certainly find it more satisfying. But I don't have time right now.
Filmfare: (We chime in…) Shah Rukh has had the opportunity to work with Mani Kaul, Ketan Mehta, Kundan Shah and blah blah…
SRK: I like this blah blah… I will tell the boys.
FF: I mean, good blah blah… (to Bachchan) Don’t you think you’ve missed a certain crucial form of filmmaking?
AB: Yes, I do. I missed it. I think Shah Rukh was very lucky to have been able to do this kind of cinema.
FF: Are you opposed to such films? Would you make them?
AB: I really can't say. It's not too late to do them. If you have some ideas for me, I'd love to hear them.
FF: Why didn't Ketan Mehta's Qartoos work?
AB: Yes, Qartoos is still in limbo. I don't know why. It came at a time when people were not convinced about the economic viability of the project. Whether it would start or not. I didn't want it to share the fate of Main Azaad Hoon.
SRK: Qartoos is an expensive venture.
AB: Well, yes. But somewhere marketable actors are exploited by the sub-distributors. This should be avoided. Not everyone is as clever and resourceful as Tarachand Barjatya was. He controlled a whole chain of cinemas. This kind of cinema needs a very controlled release; it has to be controlled by the producer who is doing it. Only he can understand how things should be done. Others will exploit it; they are only interested in getting as much money out of it as possible...
FF: Shah Rukh, have you ever been disappointed by any performance by Amitabh Bachchan…
SRK: Yes, Nastik! I have always liked his earlier performances.
AB: Nastik didn't give you a lot to do, there was nothing that hadn't been done before.
SRK: Even in your earlier films like Zanjeer, there was always that element of you that scored more…
AB: (Interrupts) Let me tell you, no actor can rise above the script. You can only do what has been written for you.
SRK: So an actor should not take credit for the success of a film?
AB: No actor should. What is the most exciting film you are making at the moment?
SRK: There's Ram Jaane, directed by Rajiv Mehra. It's a remake. I don't know what of, but it's interesting. It's about this guy who believes in ishtyle, he's a hitman for the underworld. And he ends up being hanged. But he dies with ishtyle. And there are children in the film. We had this idea that children love Amitabh Bachchan. He has negative traits... yet the children love him because... kya ishtyle hai! Anil Kapoor has played a lot of tapori characters, but these more stylised guys. The kids love MTV, so it's a little more modern, a little more western. I'll be wearing red shoes and stuff. Then there's a film with Sashilaal Nair, which has a lot of special effects. Shikhar by Subhash Ghai and Tevar by Yash Chopra, although I don't think the title is decided yet.
AB: It is great fun working with Yashji.
SRK: I call him Panditji. I did my most difficult film with him - Darr. Physically difficult. I have never been beaten so much in any other film. I don't know how I managed it. When I saw the finished film, I thought, "Arre ye kaise kar diya maine?"
AB: We completed 90 percent of Kabhi Kabhie in one shift. It was like a big picnic in Kashmir.
SRK: We made Darr in 33 days... I think Yashji likes the Delhi atmosphere - shaadiyan, everyone sits around chatting, playing cards late into the night. (Suddenly) How much have you been inspired by Dilip Kumar?
AB: A lot, because with the films you watch at a young age, you set your priorities. What you will be influenced by, what will be aesthetically good for you. What clothes you will wear, what will look good on you... Dilipsaab made a good impression on me from the minute I saw him. In many ways, he is responsible for revolutionising the concept of acting. He also had that consistent quality that we talked about, which is very important. Earlier, most actors used to speak the lines of dialogue on cue. I think it is important to realise that this is not the way we speak in real life. You say something to me, it sinks in, registers, takes time and then I respond to you. It takes the pauses, the eloquent moments of silence before speaking.
SRK: What did you bring in?
AB: Nothing, absolutely nothing.
SRK: Why are you so reserved?
AB: I'm not. Can anyone tell me what I brought to the table? You won't be able to point out anything that hadn't been done before. Not from the characters or the environments: they were largely responsible for supporting the characters I portrayed. Amar Akbar Anthony had an incredible script. Sharaabi had this very novel concept... instead of a drunken scene, the guy was continuously drunk, from start to finish. Mukul Anand's compositions are exquisite. So was Salim-Javed's script and dialogue when they were together. Essentially, an actor should be able to deliver the text with the same intensity with which it was written. If actors remember that, they will succeed. Mehmoodbhai is one actor who has not received the prominence he deserves. He was incredible! I wish a little more attention was paid to evaluating his skill rather than just giggling at his comedy. Someone should analyse Mehmoodbhai's performances. It would be a really interesting task. His ability to relax in front of the camera was incredible.
SRK: And if either Dev Anand or Raaj Kumar had accepted Zanjeer? Would it have been the same film?
AB: We don't know, it's difficult to risk an estimate.
FF: What about the actor's contribution to a film?
AB: An actor's contribution is only to create an identity in the minds of the masses. The masses chose to like what Shah Rukh did in films like Baazigar and Darr. If the roles had not been designed and written in this way, it might have been difficult to establish an identity...
SRK: At some point or another, you must have brought something of yourself to the script of a film; you must have added your own touches, your own nuances. I am sure quite a few stories have been written with you in mind.
AB: If something like that happened, I would consider it an unfair practice. It should not have happened.
SRK: How do you explain the fact that you were appreciated even in films like Kabhi Kabhie?
AB: I was appreciated in Kabhi Kabhie because till then the audience had only seen me do the opposite. In a particular year, I think 1978, I had back-to-back releases - Muqaddar Ka Sikandar, Amar Akbar Anthony, Trishul, Kasme Vaade. There were no plans to release them one after the other, it just happened. And they all were successful. Perhaps the audience could not escape this intoxicating potion. They said yes, this is good, this is also good, that is also good. Considering the variety of my films, I was appreciated.
SRK: You were just lucky?
AB: I was lucky. Today I know that I can play something totally negative, like a murderer like the Boston Strangler. Now that it would be revolutionary, it would be interesting to see how the audience reacts. The viability of such a project would have to be tested. I hesitate because it seems almost impossible to turn around, to reverse an image. Shah Rukh, so far people have not been able to pigeonhole you. You are lucky, you can experiment, you can have fun. I hope I am wrong in saying this, but I think people need a lot more education to start appreciating the true portrayal of an actor. You cannot convey to the masses what I portray in a film, or what I mean. John Wayne never got off his horse in his entire career and he is considered the greatest American hero. By God, Marlon Brando, Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Montgomery Clift and so many others are such fine actors. But any review of American cinema will have to mention John Wayne in the same breath as her – because he was extremely popular.
SRK: You praise today's actors unreservedly. You say we are well prepared, but don't you think the whole system of filmmaking is becoming schematic?
AB: That’s right.
SRK: Some dancing, some fighting, a rehash of old Bachchan films!
AB: Whatever... but that's sad. However, I wouldn't blame the actor for doing what is asked of him. I would rather blame the system. You leave out one small ingredient and the audience feels cheated. They want to see everything. And they want today's actors to be efficient in every area. As long as this system thrives, I'm afraid we'll all be stuck. I wish the system would change. But for that, the masses have to be educated and I don't see why that onus should fall on the filmmakers. It's not our job to educate the audience; it's our job to entertain.
FF: Since we have you both under the same roof, can we talk about that damn controversy about the popularity of your concerts abroad? What happened there?
AB: Oh you're referring to the New York one. We both had shows on the same day. Shah Rukh, I told my promoters to get in touch with you, I don't know if they got through to you or not. I met the Moranis who were on the same flight with Sunny and me. I went to New York, Sunny to London. I told them we should do the shows together. It would bring in a huge profit.
SRK: So we thought the same thing.
AB: I think there is a lot of rivalry among the Asian community based there. So when a member of the community based in America does a show, the other groups are against him. They say hamara bhi haq hai about Indian stars. I told our promoters and everyone else that because of the competition, even I can predict the headlines. I knew that the magazines here would pit Shah Rukh Khan and Amitabh Bachchan against each other and decide whose show was more popular. A year earlier, Anil Kapoor and I did shows in America. That was when Mithun created the Cine Artistes Association. I had already told Mithun that I was going to do something, so he said, 'Dada abhi to aapko kuchh karma hi hoga.' I said, 'Theek hai, we will merge the shows.' And it was fabulous. We filled the huge stadium in New Jersey like I did in 1990. It's just the media guys who are hyping it up. The press people decide what they want to write from their offices.
FF: Who stands then with explanations like “milk will turn into milk and water will turn into water?”
AB: That is not my explanation.
FF: It is Anil Kapoor's statement.
AB: Then ask Anil Kapoor. Where is he? You only have Shah Rukh and me here.
FF: But it cannot be denied that there were tensions between the groups.
SRK: Not between the artists who were performing. In New York, we celebrated with champagne because our show was a success. I was not even in the hotel at the time of the celebration. Gauri and I had gone out to walk in Soho. Karisma Kapoor and Sunny opened the champagne, they were happy about the show. But it turned out that they were celebrating the failure of the other show.
AB: Concerts are a huge medium. We should do something together. From the very beginning I wanted to present very professional shows. I tried to do it in New York's Madison Square Gardens and Wembley Stadium in London. We have the best performers and I can tell you they were shocked. The guy who designed our show at Giants Stadium designed the concerts for Michael Jackson and the Rolling Stones... and they were surprised. He said he had never seen so much colour, so much diversity. We discussed the seating plans and our production manager told them to provide more seats and extra security. We told them that our audience comes with all their finery. Usually in concerts there are only heavy metal rock stars, long hair, shaking, screaming and shouting. The Asian audience comes with their best finery and it's an indicator... it's like going back to their roots. I planned to do something with Lala Mangeshkarji. In fact, performers from all the SAARC countries should come together... maybe someone like Runa Laila from Bangladesh, someone from Sri Lanka and put on a show together. It can't go wrong. An Asian runs a small shop in Manhattan, every fourth day some fool comes and robs him of his money. He longs for a contact with his homeland, with the entertainers from his country. We should do much bigger shows, use them for creative purposes. Look at the strength we can muster together. The most elaborately planned mega-political rallies cannot match the crowds we can draw. We don't have to pay people money to come and listen to us. We have the power to rock the world if we unite.
SRK: Yes, exactly!