‚I am not all evil.’
Sonali V. Kotnis
Have you ever heard of a devil who thrills? A monster who makes you laugh? The guy, though full of danger, is cool - no problem. If you like walking on thin ice (rest assured, if you fall in, he'll be the first to pull you out), he's OK. Meet the incarnation of Lucifer. And when he tells you, "I'm not all that bad," it pays to remember: it will always be a cloak and dagger affair.
Every season seems to usher in a new craze. In the world of changing trends and heroes, have you assessed the competition around?
In all honesty, no. I know there is no competition. I have to keep improving what I do. I am not nervous about the results. I am just tense about the work. I constantly judge the people I work with - cinematographers, directors, writers, but not the competition. I don't think anyone can make a dent in anyone's popularity. Supposedly, I had siphoned off some of Salman's fans when I came. Now HAHK has cancelled that notion. I do my five films a year. If they work, it's OK with me; if they don't, they were bad films.
I have noticed that people around me worry about whether other people's films are successful. I have never worried about that. When I meet people, they say, you are acting very well - that is my success. A bad actor cannot work for long. Take Rishi Kapoor. Do you think any of us could have lasted that long - from Amitabh to Saif? The bottom line is, he is good - that is all that matters.
I also have a certain power over the medium, but I think I am successful because of the mediocrity around me.
So Akshay and Sunil's phenomenal popularity and the fact that they are now hot on your heels is not giving you sleepless nights?
Not at all. I work like a dog and sleep like a log. I can't even say I'm happy for them as I don't know them too well. (If it was someone I know like Chunky, Salman, Atul it's a different story) The ultimate truth is that I am not successful. I am still not. My goals are much higher. If people think that overtaking me is success then their goals are even lower and I pity them. I have to go much higher.
I am not Amitabh or Rajesh Khanna. Maybe one day I will be. Someone asked me, 'Will there be another Amitabh Bachchan?' May be, may not be but I would like to believe that yes, there will be another Bachchan. Because I am still in the game too. I want a chapter on me too. If you write a chapter about me today, it will be about 11 films (7 made money, 4 didn't), a house and a car. I want to be known for more than that. People should imitate me; people should look at my haircut. They should want to be like me.
Isn't 9 months off the screen too long for this kind of flattery?
It makes no difference to me. Why should it? After all, it was 25 years before I made my first film.
After Darr you were definitely the most popular star but today because of lack of releases from you, we have Sunil and Akshay who are definitely big players to reckon with.
Are you saying if I had had releases they wouldn't be as strong as they are today? I am just working to be a more than mediocre actor and I remember in the beginning I had five releases in 5 months, then there was a gap of 5 months, then I came with Baazigar, Darr, Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa and Anjaam. Now I am following the same pattern. Then there will be a gap again. In no way am I manipulating my releases. Maybe it will be for the better, maybe it will turn out to be for the worse.
I have always been unconventional in everything I have done. When I came, I was written off as a television actor. When I did Baazigar, people wrote me off. When I did Darr, which all the big heroes had rejected, the general view was, you are done. I personally feel that I have not done too many films which will be detrimental to my career. There has not been a spate of 20 failures, then two hits, then 7 failures and then one hit. Whatever hits I have made and released, if nothing else, they have had a lot of dignity. I want my children to respect me for the films I have done.
If you mean that in 11 months people will replace me with other actors, then I am not half the actor I think I am. That shows how unsuccessful I am. It is as simple as that. If AB did not do a film for a long time (I am not comparing myself with him), then nobody lost respect for him as an actor, as a star.
I feel that I have not regressed since Deewana at least. Fortunately, I have never had to struggle through 10-15 failures like even Mr Bachchan had to. I find that from my first film onwards I was able to experiment in a way that most established actors were not able to. I haven't burned out yet, and things can only get better from here on out.
Akshay has a Zaalim, Zakhmi Dil, Suhaag. The advertisements, the posters, all that keeps him at the top of the public mind.
Look, it looks like we are living on junk food actors. Now we have posters that make stars. What else? The guy who comes on the cover of the movie is your superstar.
That's just the way it is.
Haan haan kyon nahin. (Yeah yeah, why not)
Every actor is paranoid about failure. Has it never crossed your mind?
I have seen many failures but failure is of very little importance in the film industry. I have lost my parents, what greater blow can befall someone? And when I can live happily after such a big loss, what is the meaning of loss of fame? But my failures don't kill me, they only inspire me to express myself better.
I think I failed in Dil Aashna Hai, King Uncle and Anjaam. Even in Darr, I am very thankful for the film, otherwise I think I was just OK. And I am not so humble as to say like Mr Bachchan, 'I am mediocre' because if Mr Bachchan is mediocre, I am just amazing, yaar. If he says so and believes in it, why not me.
So do you consider yourself a success story?
Well, people say I am very successful. When I went away for the shows recently, I realised that most of my success comes from the songs and all that, while I thought I was acting. When I came back to India by Air India, there was a Shah Rukh Khan festival and I saw four of my films in one go and I was quite disappointed with myself. I think by the end of '95, I will be a better actor than I was in '91.
I don't know if the number of hits will increase. The aim is to be the best actor. I guess more people like me now than after Deewana. So professionally, I don't think there will ever be an anti-Shah Rukh feeling. Personally, well, I don't think anyone likes me after reading everything that appears in the magazines. But that's OK, because I like myself. You're okay, I'm okay, the others are okay too.
As an actor who has shown diversity in his choice of roles and takes pride in being different, why did you take up a conventional role like Karan Arjun's?
It is so mundane, I have not attempted anything like this before and that is why it is different. And let me tell you, I have done a very good job. I will tell you what is different. Throughout the film, I am shown riding horses. Salman is a very good rider. I learnt in four days and initially when I fell off, it hurt but still, I did all the scenes myself and I am very proud of it. I did a good job.
I had horses. My father loved them, he had horses himself, but I hate riding. Now I will tell my directors that I don't ride anymore - they will have to replace them with motorcycles.
If we talk about Karan Arjun, I found the popular number Jaati hoon main vulgar.
In fact, Gauri told me that the song was vulgar. I have not seen it. However, I did it about a year ago and I remember the song as naughty, not vulgar. But if you say so, there must be something in it. Still, I don't think it will cause any uproar. People I did not know very well, like Maya Alagh and other colleagues, came and congratulated me and said that I danced well. I have a devilish smile which lessens the effect.
Talking about your devilish smile, you seem to have practiced it a lot - especially when you teamed up with Salman on the sets of Karan Arjun and cracked jokes at Mamta's expense.
I never mentioned her name nor laughed at her. Moreover, nobody can stop me from laughing. I laugh at jokes. If she feels that I laughed at her, then I am sorry, she will have to live with the feeling. I worked with her for a total of five days, 15 hours a day. I don't know why she feels so bullied. The only time I went to Mamta and spoke to her and her mother was when I felt that a lot of people were talking bad about her because she seemed a little stuck up.
The only other time I spoke to her was when she kept demanding another shot. I like that a lot, but I told her to remember that she can't see herself, so they have to respect her saying that's OK. Ultimately, I hope to God that she keeps her smile all her life, because smile is one of the most beautiful things that any human being can have.
But you were a silent spectator in the whole drama when Salman made life difficult for Mamta by making blatant advances and muttering obscene words.
I can vouch for Salman; he never made any advances to Mamta in my presence. There was no undue masculine behaviour on Salman's part towards Mamta in the form of mean or vulgar behaviour or evening teasing before me. If that was the case, I would have reprimanded him, as would a lot of other people who were responsible for Mamta's well-being during the shoot. I would put it this way. There may be a big misunderstanding about Salman's sense of humour. Even Gauri had misunderstood Salman initially. She also thought he was very mean. But now she takes it cool.
Ninety-nine per cent of the time, Salman and I would go on the sets together, eat together and chat. The only thing we didn't do together was sleep. What he did once he was in his bed, I can't vouch for. But ultimately, if I do another film with Mamta, I would behave in the same way and she would again think I was making fun of her.
Controversy seems to be Karan Arjun's surname. I witnessed the argument Kajol had with Rakesh when she was supposed to be on the sets. And I believe you played the role of the mediator who made the warring parties come to a compromise.
Well, they had some issues on the sets of Karan Arjun over the costume that Kajol was supposed to wear. What really went wrong was that Rakesh wanted both the couples to be dressed identically for the final family picture. So Salman and I wore our cream kurta pyjamas and Mamta and Kajol wore red sarees. Rakesh and Kajol had some kind of disagreement because the clothes didn't fit her properly. That's when it started. She wanted to postpone the shoot but I convinced her to do the shot.
Do you think it is in the realm of good form for a heroine to criticise a senior director like that?
Look, I am the last person to talk about propriety. I am supposed to be arrogant and high-handed myself. There are so many reasons that this could happen. From Rakesh's point of view, they had paid Kajol for the days of work, so she was obliged to wait till the end of the shift. And may be that the director too made the mistake of not asking her to take a break and made her wait. As far as I am concerned, I don't think I have the authority to tell any director how bad or good he is until I finish his film. And even after the film is completed, I would rather not work with him than tell him that he is bad.
As in the case of Rahul Rawail and Anjaam?
Yes, if a film is not made to the standard that was promised, then I would not work with the party involved. That is what happened in the case of Rahul Rawail's Anjaam though. Sometimes I say I don't like the face of a particular person but it goes much deeper than that.
Today, of course, I am able to choose, so I can afford to do such quirky things. I don't know what I will be like tomorrow. Even when I joined, I only worked with producers who understood me and I don't see why I shouldn't continue to do so. There are some very great directors (without mentioning names) who would have wanted to work with me and I would have wanted to work with them. But I will never work with them because I know somewhere deep down that it will not be a very pleasant 100 days of shooting.
Big banners decide a star's fate and since you have the Ghai and Chopra camp in your pocket, you are surely able to pick and choose.
This year I am doing two films for Subhash Ghai, two for Yash Chopra, two for Venus, one for FC Mehra and one for Shashilal Nair. None of these producers or directors need me as a star to sell their film. They are 100 times more talented than I am and I will learn a lot from them. It was a pleasure working in the earlier films I did with the same banners. I don't consider them big banners. I call it a homecoming. My career seems to have come full circle. I started with Raju... and today I am doing Aziz's Yes Boss. All my producers and directors I work with because I like them very much and I can guarantee you that I would like them equally if they were not big banners and vice versa. Personally, I like doing budget films. I believe in films that have a soul.
You were just talking about homecoming, does it hurt if Kundan Shah takes Anil Kapoor for his next film after he did Kabhi Haan Kabhi Naa with you?
It didn't hurt Kundan that I signed Rajiv's film after KHKN. If I have the freedom to sign films with other directors, then Kundan also has the freedom to decide his casting. In fact, when Kundan was working on the script, I, as a friend, gave him suggestions for the script. Do you know that I was supposed to play the role of Depak Tijori in KHKN? It was originally an Aamir-Juhi film.
Yes Boss also had some scheduling issues. They considered Saif. But later everything was sorted out. See, there is no point in getting greedy in every project. Those who are meant for me will come to me. Darr was Aamir's film. Chamatkar was Deepak Malhotra. Deewana was Armaan Kohli; it was announced in the trade magazines. Raju... was a back and forth between Aamir and Vivek Mushran. Baazigar was Salman. The films that were not meant for me have come to me and have been successful. What I wanted to say is, I have made an entire career out of rejections, imagine what will happen when I start doing the films that are written for me. The relationship between Kundan and me is a love/hate one; we argue, bicker but always get back together. I don't have the relationship that Jackie shares with him, could be because although the Sippys and Venus have played a very important role in my career, no banner really launched me.
And yet you turned down Venus' MKT
It wasn't exactly offered to me, literally. It's a film I wanted to do. I was very keen on it. But I somehow felt that the version we ended up seeing wasn't as deep as the English version.
There, the film worked mainly because James Wood (an older star) plays the role of the inspector. When you cast someone as charismatic as Akshay, the shine gets divided, whereas the story only allows the film to shine. My ideal casting would have been either Naseer or Om Puri and me.
That's not the only casting you disagreed with. Apparently, when Anil Kapoor was considered as a replacement for Sanjay Dutt, they went all out to oppose the choice.
I have no problem working with Anil Kapoor. It's a terrible feeling that Sanjay Dutt is not in the film. Everyone wanted him to do the film - whoever he is replaced by is not important. Anil has of course been a help - he came in at the last minute, despite being a busy star himself.
Ultimately, he saved everyone's schedule, he saved the cost of the film and perhaps he could be responsible for the film being a success because it did not exceed its budget. So I am grateful to him for giving his time and enthusiasm (he is very enthusiastic). Sanju himself had written to Subhash Ghai and until the letter came, Subhash Ghai and Mukul had not thought of replacing him. Every decision that was taken about the replacement was taken with the involvement of the entire crew and cast. Even the spot boys knew what was happening. Subhash Ghai did it very well, he says the criteria for casting is suitability, feasibility, profitability, saleability and availability and I am sure Subhash Ghai must have considered all these as he is the producer and writer.
Anil has worked with them before. Actually, I am the newbie, with Jackie and him here. It was pleasant working with Anil. He is nervous though - he has come into a film which is almost complete. He is working very hard. He has tried a new make-up. I have shot for 2 days so far and we have not had any important scenes, we have only done montages of him, which is fine with me. He has done them very well, so it is proved beyond doubt that he is a fine actor.
As far as I am concerned, as I said, I have no problem working with Anil Kapoor. If he has a problem, you have to ask him. After all, he is the one who said 'Doodh ka doodh'. 'Deewana Mastana was sold for more after Shah Rukh was out.' I am a professional. I know you don't have to be in love to portray romance. You don't have to have maternal feelings to portray a mother; you don't have to hate someone if they are the villain. Similarly, you don't have to have brotherly feelings if someone is playing your brother. I have done a good job with all the mothers, fathers and girlfriends on screen, so why not the brother?
Do you think you would have gone ahead with it if Anil had been chosen to do the role from the beginning?
In the initial stages, Sanju was not confirmed. Jackie and I were, but Sanju was not confirmed because of his schedule. Even then, there were a lot of options and one of them was Anil Kapoor.
Your other arch rival Govinda is also fuming because you referred to him in a derogatory way on a TV show and even I now think that your apology was very muted in tone.
I have not yet gone and apologised to Govinda but when I do, I will make sure to gather as many people as possible in case there is something he and his family have misunderstood. I was not trying to put him down. If it makes him feel a little better, I will apologise to him the next time I am asked to do Aapki Adalat.
O Darling Yeh Hai India is an unconventional project. Don't you think it is a risky proposition with Deepa Sahi in the lead role as her commercial viability is not proven?
Any project with Shah Rukh Khan is the most commercial project. I don't think anyone else is required. Madhuri and I did a film called Anjaam which was not successful, so what is the criteria? I did KHKN which had a new heroine; Maya Memsaab was a big commission earner. Do you think Baazigar was a hit because of Shilpa Shetty? Then why do you think O Darling... will go wrong because of Deepa?
There is no qualification or disqualification. How many heroes have been written off? Several superstars. I know how badly people spoke about Sunil Shetty before he became No. 1. People even said that Ajay Devgan would never be successful and is he not successful? Rajesh Khanna was denied entry into the film business. Amitabh was rejected by All India Radio. I am not saying that Deepa Sahi will become a superstar. But I respect my director's choice. He always knows what is right. I sign a film because of my role. As far as Ketan Mehta is concerned, I think he is a great director, he deserves a great actor like me. As far as visuals and filmmaking are concerned, he is one of the top 10 we have. It is another thing that there are idiots who make films and money in commercial cinema, whereas Ketan's is weak, he has to sell his house to make a film. Everyone asks me why I am doing O Darling... I am confused about that, where are some of the so-called successful ones today? I would not turn away from certain films completely; like many actors do today.
So you would rather take up projects like Tevar, with Madhuri and Juhi fighting for you.
I am glad you can put it so simply. It is a triangle, yes, and before you ask me, Juhi is not doing the cameo.
As far as I know, there are four main characters - there are two very important female characters in the film. There is another hero who may not be a main character in terms of the size of the role, but in terms of character, it is a very important and lovable role. (You are considering Jackie or Akshay for the role). It is a role that I would have taken up if Yashji had offered it to me.
Actually, I was supposed to do a similar role in Purab Ki Laila Paschim Ka Chaila, however, I had accepted it because I truly believe that there are no small roles, there are only small actors. Similarly, this other role in Tevar is one that will not be forgotten.
Just like no role is too small for any actor, you also seem to think that no work is too small for a star. I have seen you lifting lights and carrying cameras on the sets of Ramesh Sippy's Zamana Deewana.
I have respect for everyone in the crews I work for and they return my respect because I always come on time. I never get up in the middle of the shift and callously announce, 'Chal ghar chalte hain.' The crews have been treated in this manner. They know that I work as hard as they do. Many technicians find that I am also a technician. I spare no effort, stick to my costars' deadlines and that is nothing special because it is my damn film.
I try to make sure nothing goes wrong. I am not doing anything special, it is every actor's job, that is why I do only five films and not 20. I am very passionate about my films. Like when I came back to Rakesh Roshan's crew for Karan Arjun after doing King Uncle. They were very excited about me being successful. None of them were jealous of my success, the people who didn't work with me - maybe. I remember Subhash Ghai telling me that once when he shook my hand, he thought I was the worst kind of guy. He can understand people by shaking their hands. And he thought I was a dog. He
even said to Ramesh Sippy (at the party where we met), 'If this guy ever becomes big, he will destroy everyone.' Then we met again at KHKN's party. There he saw a more humane side of me. That's when he realised that I am not rude or arrogant. He once thought that once I am successful, I will change, come late and take undue advantage of my star power. Now that he has worked with me, the first thing he told me after seven days of shooting was 'Unit tumhe bahut pyar karta hai.' (The crew loves you very much) I know some directors who are petrified to correct film heroes because they are known for their tantrums. I have seen this happen.
Heroes are known to make themselves important in 1000 other ways like exercising veto power in the choice of heroine. You reportedly lobbied too strongly for Kajol in Abbas-Mastan's Badshah against the originally selected Shilpa Shetty. And even Hema Malini left Zamana Deewana because of her bad aura during her Dil Aashna Hai.
For that matter, I did not lobbied for Kajol or any other heroine. I believe they are casting Manisha now. I remember going to the sets of Trimurti thinking that I was working with Pooja Bhatt and it was Anjali Jatthar. In Baazigar, I thought it was either Juhi or Sridevi and it was Shilpa.
As for Hemaji, do you think I am that important? In fact, when she was shooting in Film City, I went to her to tell her that I was longing to work with her. I am always happy to meet her. In fact, I was shooting for her film Dil Aashna Hai just a day after I got married. With other guys you say he threw out Juhi, Madhuri, Shilpa Shetty but with me it is the dream girl herself! I guess I have to be different in that too. Now why did someone tell Hemaji that I had a problem with karisma too. All I told her is that people start misusing the image you create for yourself. The fact is that you did a certain type of dance numbers which have become very popular and then there are some directors who will say 'Karisma ko lekar gana dalo na vaisa sexy wala'. Don't let that affect you. Take films where you are the character and not a dance number.
Tell me honestly, which heroine did you enjoy working with the most?
One heroine I really enjoyed working with is Madhuri. She approaches her work very professionally without giving too much importance to the fact that she is Madhuri. It was a very pleasant experience.
Apparently, working with Raveena and Manisha has not been that pleasant. Endless hours of waiting and projects still incomplete. I think you have sworn off working with the pesky duo.
If they are cast in a film with me, I will work with them. I don't question the director. I don't form an opinion about the casting unless I am the director.
Working with Manisha has been really pleasant. She is a nice person. Ravenna has had some scheduling issues but I think everyone goes through that phase. I think only Madhuri's schedule coincided with FMC's. When I get really angry with them, I say, 'Look, don't mess with professionalism.' I tell everyone, even the most professional people. They are just actors, just employees and that is how they should work. I think the main problem is signing too many films. Too much is done too hastily in the industry. If you don't have a smart head on your shoulders, you can get carried away by the yeh bhi aa raha hai, who bhi aa raha hai, 'I'm getting five,' 'no, I'm getting ten, fifty.' 'Shit, I'm a 50 lakh hero!'
You just have to get on with your work. You have this long-distance runner. The important one is not the guy who runs and wins. The important guy is the one who sets the pace. Halfway through, the guy knows he's going to lose the race. But he removes all the obstacles - that's the pacemaker you have to work with. That's what we are, setting the pace. Of course, after setting the pace, he also looks over his shoulder, smiles again and gets out and lets somebody else win because he himself can't maintain that pace. Then there's the one guy who has the courage and says, 'Shit, you've challenged me, I'll follow.' That's why the most important one is the pacemaker. You have to adjust your speed and follow him and win the race after setting your own goal post.
So you are a pacemaker?
Yes, I could become one. One day I will reach a stage where I will not be able to continue. Then I will just smile, look over my shoulder and leave the race. To borrow a dialogue from Raaj Kumar, 'I am a lion, I will never take part in the rat race.'